I played tsukihime first and loved the phycological routes, only to play FSN. FSN is... long. I enjoyed it but the content was no darker than your average shonen anime / manga, the characters where quite good but overall the interaction between the characters other than with with the main protagonist were very weak. Generaly I find FSN overrated.
Saya no uta probably has the darkest storyline, but quite frankly the characters were completely two dimensional and the ero content was nothing short of vile. Whoever thought up those sick scenes needs to see a doctor.
In evaluation I think that Tsukihime was the novel that stuck with me, Tohno Shiki is just such an iconic character and the inter-character relationships are a lot more solid than in FSN.
This isnt realy related to the proggression of VNDS but I dont think theres any harm in a simple exchange of opinions. :/
What r u, a sadist? Then again, most novels that have high ratings are the ones with a dark mood with phychological conflicts... I guess people just doesn't want an ordinary happy novel. That would be just boring
Not exactly true. After all, lots of happy stories are highly rated.
Anyway, I think it's the process of having a (happy/normal/situated person) come into some kind of conflict yet still manage to eke out and overcome the conflict to (become a better person/get the girl/other happy ending) that is highly rated. When a storywriter not only manages to have that conflict but also does it in a way that is completely believable in the context of the story's setting and could even be related to on a thematic level, that is when people take notice.
Of course, taking it too far makes a story dry, so you have to have a balance between the relationships and action. Anyway, I'm totally talking out my ass here, but those are my opinions and second-hand knowledge on the subject.
breathe
To respond to the OP, I played Tsukihime back when FSN wasn't finished translated yet, and thought it was damn awesome. Then I played FSN and was blown away.
In case people reading this haven't somehow played the game yet, SPOILERS! though I tried to make them sorta vague.
I agree the first path was about as shonen as it comes. Keeps to his ideals, becomes the hero, "gets the girl" though bittersweet in the end. Yeah, shonen.
In the second path, this gets a small chink when he learns about his future self and more of the world is opened up. However, it maintains that feeling of shonen anime.
Then the third one, damn. Everything's going alright... wait, what, you just lost your "power"? Not expected, ok. Depths of despair, everything is going to hell, nothing's working out right, you're learning more and more about the horrible circumstances surrounding your "girl's" family, then the ultimate choice. Do you continue to follow your ideals, or break them to save the girl you love? Remember, these aren't rules, laws, anything like that. You're breaking something inside of yourself to do this, something very, very dear to Shirou. Something that defines Shirou as a person.
When I hit that choice and actually thought about it, and compared it to the way Shirou acted throughout path 1, 2, and most of 3, I was stunned. This was a person growing and evolving through conflict, not just beating the odds with a mindset he already had. Which is fairly anti-shonen as far as I've seen in samples like Naruto, Bleach, and others.
Anyway, if you couldn't tell, I was bored and half delerious (almost 4AM here) writing this. These are my OPINIONS usually, and therefore up for debate. Thank you and good-night!
bows
@2
Im not a sadist :p However I like it when a VN scares me, however as Shin said its just as much the overcoming of the conflict as it is in the conflict itself that makes people like the VNs. In tsukihime rather than having completely happy or deppressing endings (other than the bad ends of course) generaly the endings worked in quite a beautiful way, for instance the ciel true ending is obviously quite a mellancholic ending but at the same time is not overly dank and deppressing leaving an interesting concept left open.
I'm not a fan of horror genre in the first place, but I do like all those titles. With that said, FSN definitely takes top place, the complex twists and plot in the story doesn't exist in Saya no Uta, and isn't developed well enough in Tsukihime....Well, to be fair, Tsukihime is Nasu's first work, and a four year gap took place before FSN materialized, so there's bound to be improvements...
I agree with Chass. I loved tsukihime, mainly the Akiha, Hisui and Kohaku routes, but it terms of graphical design, story developement, expectations and surprises it's by far overruled by FSN. I agree that some characters, like Kohaku, have a more sinister and well developed background story then some of the FSN girls, like Saber, but all in all FSN has a superior sotry. The whole truth about the Holy Grail War is by far more interesting, surprising and epic then SHIKI's or Roa's past and whatever.
As for Saya no Uta I still haven't played it yet, but based on the comments I think I should.
Sorry about any possible spoilers that I may have given. ^^'
Saya no uta was just.. Kinda weird and may I say 'fucked up' for me. The scene where he eats human flesh and finds it delicious was.. Well, just plain scary. Fsn was pretty good. A boy with a rather ridiculous ideal joins a war only few will know about and it provided lots of suspense and interesting routes. Heaven's feel's story was unnecessary though. I haven't played tsukihime yet but I'm sure it's heart wrenching as ppl say. #2, that's what it makes it stand out from the rest! It won't be valuable if there's too much of it. Happy ends are maybe considered boring but ur only looking at results. The conflicts between the start and ending is what makes most of a story. I personally like story with a bit of dark mood as it's more 'realistic' for ppl in this world.
Awwww, Heaven's Feel wasn't unnecessary. I found it to be the best one. Regardless of story, I thought the fight scenes at least were the best out of the three routes.
Saya no Uta... I don't know. I played through one route then put it down. It was so freaky and messed up yet still made sense what was going on and why. I'll eventually finish it, but man was it weird.
>>12
Zomg! SPOILERS xD! Augh people that haven't played don't read that post!! It will spoil things for you xD.
In Saya no Uta, the lab discovering scene blew me away. A lot of the other scenes were only scary by their use of twisted morals, but this scene was genuine psychological horror, and probably the reason why people call Saya no Uta "Lovecraftian" at times.
Tsukihime mainly stuck with me because of the music, the writing was a bit too shounen at times when it easily dissolved all the creepiness of the initial situation by your typical shounen speeches "girl from another world explains its rules to the protagonist". I hate these since they take away so much from the mystery, like when the new Star Wars trilogy decided to explain how the Force works (lol). Tsukihime is dark and creepy at a lot of times, but it could be much more if it hadn't these shounenesque explanations by all characters and on all topics. Also, the darkness went into some deeply melancholic direction, which I liked very much. The motif of young man coming to live in an old mansion full of beautiful women and mysteries is very old and maybe overused, but it was played very well, and I enjoyed these scenes more than the vampire hunting. While you can get used to the sprite art, the CGs are quite terrible.
FSN I have not played yet.
Tsukihime is a book/game/whatever which I love. I love the characters, I love the universe, I love the presentation, so that comes top. I'd say F/SN is next, because it really uses the visua novel format in ways that I've never seen before - like how (SPOILER) in one route they can have us spend time around and get to know Illya, and then in another they can kill her, meaning that she can be extraneous to that story while still giving her death emotional impact (END SPOILER). Also it appeals to the slightly immature shonen fan in me.
Saya No Uta was a great short read. Fun, scary, and genuinely disturbing. When I was in a death metal band we actually used some of the art as a myspace header.